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Comments by: YACCS

Welcome to Sad Salvation. Day by day by day by day ... this is my attempt to make sense of the world.



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Friday, June 15, 2007


Put your money where your mouth is


Money where your mouth is
Originally uploaded by earthdog.
Over the last couple of days I have been caught up in the thread about Flickr censoring their German users by not letting them turn off safe search. There is a long thread about the topic in the Flickr Help Forum. This story has been picked up a little by the media. It has made lots of blogs. It has gotten a lot of attention from Flickr users.

I understand that people are upset about their photos being blocked and not being able to see some pictures. I know as a user of Flickr I think the protest is good. I think it is good for people to put the heat on Flickr and Yahoo. In the end we are their customers. That is an asymmetric relationship. The customer's power is our ability make noise and leave Flickr.

There is a lot of energy on the Flickr Germany discussion. There are a lot of passionate people. I would love to see these people channel this energy to more serious Censorship issues. I know that some people will say that all censorship is serious. Honestly I think that journalists who are jailed or killed because of their work is more serious than people having photos blocked on flickr. I would love to see that energy transfered from Flickr to larger issues of Censorship.

Thomas Hawk said the he was going to put his money where his mouth was for Zooomr and adopt standards that Yahoo would not adopt. I invite Thomas Hawk, every blogger out there who has made a post about this, and every Flickr user who has protested about this to actually put their money where their mouth is. I would like to challenge all these people to donate money to Reporters without Borders or Committee to Protect Journalists. I would suggest that you donate a $1 for every blog post, forum posts, and protest picture you posted and five cents for every time you used the word 'Censorship' in this conversation.

I am not letting Flickr off the hook either. I think the company and the staff of Flickr should open up their wallets also. I think Flick should donate at least a dollar for every post on this thread. On this thread Heather said, In fact, we're all getting really uncomfortable that the words "flickr" and "censorship" are being jammed together with increasing frequency because that is _so far_ from the direction we're trying to move in. Putting down some cash to Reporters without Borders is one way to address that.

I have already donated $25 dollars to Reporters without Borders. I doubt that anyone will join me. I think that we should be able to raise $4000 for them, but I doubt that I will be able to raise $100 dollars. Tell me if you donate money in this effort.

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Wednesday, June 13, 2007


Censorship, Social Networking, Nation States, Web 2.0, and Flickr

There is currently a big hoopla over at flickr about Censorship of photos at Germany. It appears that you cannot turn off the Safe Search filter in Germany

Note: If your Yahoo! ID is based in Singapore, Germany, Hong Kong or Korea you will only be able to view safe content based on your local Terms of Service so won’t be able to turn SafeSearch off.


This has caused a big dust up at Flickr. There are lots of users that are upset about this. It seems to be going past the level of people who think "any content filtering on the internet is censorship" crowd. There seems to be a lot of average users who are up in arms about this. Flickr is all about sharing photos. It is easy to see why people are upset.

This is a great story, because there are lots of stories here. The ones that are the most interesting to me is how Flickr SafeSearch works. It is an all or nothing filtering system. You cannot mark why something should be filtered. Content is not marked for sex or violence, you cannot mark things not work safe, you cannot mark things based on appropriate age range. It is only marked for Safety Level.

1. Safety Level

* Safe - Content suitable for a global, public audience
* Moderate - If you're not sure whether your content is suitable for a global, public audience but you think that it doesn't need to be restricted per se, this category is for you
* Restricted - This is content you probably wouldn't show to your mum, and definitely shouldn't be seen by kids


The second story is how Flickr reacts to these things. With a community bases site things spread like wildfire. This fire has been burning for 18 hours. The users are all over the place why this happening. There seems to be no answer of why this happening. It is true that this has been happening while Flickr is on a world tour rolling out in new countries in new languages. It sounds like a bad way to launch a product. Right now the users are fending for themselves. There is no voice of the company saying why these things are happening.

All of the recent censorship issues at flickr seems this way. The users are on their own to speculate about why things happen. Flickr seems slow to respond of why things have happened. I think they need to show the users more of how the sausage is made. I think it would be better for the users to know how the company is going to react. At last we would not be in the dark.

The last interesting story here is about the future of world wide social networks. I think this story is just the tip of the iceberg. I think we are going to start to see the difference between Web 1.0 and Web 2.0 in these kinds of censorship stories. If I just posted all of my photos on my website and those photos broke some German law, it would be very hard for Germany to act against me. They might block my website, but they cannot shut me down or have my message taken off the web. They would have a hard time taking me to court. If I am using a service like flickr, Germany have a much easier time using the force of law against that company. They have a much clearer path to shut them down or sue them to take action.

I am not sure what other web 2.0 companies do. I am not if any of them have a real global reach. I am not sure what would happens to people who break German laws on YouTube.

I think there are more of these stories to come. I think we are going to see more companies have to chose between their users and local laws. It will be interesting to see this play out. What will Flickr do? What will other web 2.0 companies do? What is the right thing to do and what will be done?

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Saturday, June 09, 2007


Censorship, Community Filters, Parental Controls, and Flickr


flickr still not fixed?
Originally uploaded by violet.blue.
There has been a lot of blogging lately about Flickr and Censorship. Flickr is the favorite photo site of much of the blogging crowd. Flickr was the first photo site that understood social networking and community. It gave them a big head start over everyone else.

One thing that gets a lot of attention is when people think that Flickr is censoring them. Last month there was a big dust up when Rebekka Guðleifsdóttir had one of her photos deleted. The photo could be restored but none of the comments could be restored. Her are Rebekka's final thoughts on the flickr event.

I want to say here that I loath calling what Flickr is doing censorship. I was always thought that censorship we denying someone their right to free speech. To truly deny that you need force of law, force of violence, or force of economics. Flickr has none of these things. There is nothing stopping a Flickr user from posting their photos someplace else. Flickr users are not a captive audience, they can go anywhere else on the web to see photos. A business can set their standards what ever way fits their business model, as customers we can vote with our wallets. Censorship to me are things like insult laws and journalist getting killed.

Yesterday I read that Violet Blue received a message that her account was being moderated. Some of her photos were being blocked by safe filters on Flickr. Over the last few months on flickr I have noticed that a lot of photos get blocked by these filter. Few of the blocked photos are pornographic. Many I cannot figure out why they are being blocked at all. Violet Blue is a sex writer, but most of her photos are not unsafe. Some are risque, but she has some good questions about why they were blocked.

To be honest, I have no problem with Flickr blocking photos. They have a business they need to run. They need to create a landscape where families feel welcomed. They need to be able to offer their service to the wider world. I understand why they want to have some rules.

My problem is with how vague the Flickr Community Guidlines are. They want people to figure it out themselves. This worries me some. I feel in a situation like this you have to spell out users rights. This means that as a member of the community I can complain if I do not like the political or moral message of a photo. I do not have to respect anyone's rights. Every photo I don't like I can say it should be blocked.

The Flickr Filters page is a perfect example of this.

How do I know if I'm doing the right thing?

What an excellent question.

Flickr will never be able to provide a comprehensive list of what content should fall in which bucket. This is simply impossible to do on a global scale.

That's why we wrote the Community Guidelines, to give you a sense of the sort of things that are allowed or not, and what will happen if you publish content that doesn't follow those guidelines.

The most important thing for you to remember when you're moderating your own content is that Flickr is used by millions of people of all ages from all over the world. We're relying on you to use your best judgement about whether or not you think the content you publish would be offensive to anyone in this enormous public space. If you even have a hint of a doubt, you should use a different safety level.

The other simple question is whether or not you'd feel comfortable showing the content you publish to a child, or your mother, or someone you're sitting next to on a bus. If the answer is no, the content should be restricted.

If it turns out that you judge "the right thing" poorly, the community will probably speak out. If we receive complaints about your content, we will take action, in line with the Community Guidelines. You really should take a moment to read them.


Hey, I want some guidelines. I want to know when I am on the wrong side of the line. Flickr is a world wide community. Anyone in the world can see my unfiltered photos. That means that standards should be easy to set. Either I can have a woman in a bathing suit, which would be fine in the US, but considered wrong in Saudi Arabia or I cannot.

There are two things I want from Flickr:

1) Better defined guide lines. If you are going to have rules you need to protect your users rights also. You need to give me the right to political photos and social photos that other people might find offensive.

2) A tool to report photos that are behind the SafeSearch filter that seem they should not be there. I have seen photos of cats, apartments, and cars where I have to click through the safe search filter. I would like to be able to report when I think the safe search filter is wrong. I would like other people to request this of Flickr also.

I found this via Thomas Hawk.

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Tuesday, May 15, 2007


Comments, Censoring, Photos, & Flickr


Flickr = Censorship
Originally uploaded by Thomas Hawk.
Thomas Hawk is making a big deal about Flickr deleting a photo and the corresponding comments from one of their users. He says that Flickr deleting the photo and the comments is censorship. I will step outside my usual idea that only the government can truly censor someone. Flickr/Yahoo cannot keep Rebekka from posting the photo someplace else. They cannot keep the users from commenting someplace else about this photo.

I will say that if any internet user expects to own the comments, they need to own where the comments are being placed. My blog does not have an end user license agreement. I am the person who backs up my pages and my comments. That is the only way I can really control it. Flickr is not a co-op. I do not have an equal say on what happens and I do not have a say if they think I broke the rules. Flickr is a business and I am their customers. Like business and customer relationships, there is asymmetrical power.

I will not make fun of Thomas Hawk for his protest. He is trying to change the way Flickr does business by applying pressure. This often can change how a business works. I as a customer thinks the best thing I can do it take my business elsewhere if I have a problem.

In the end this is not a rights issue. Flickr is well within its rights to do what it did. Since they are not a monopoly we can all take our business elsewhere if we choose.

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